The ponies that used to pull the carts in coal mines were called "Pit Ponies" i am fairly sure this is where the "pit bull terriers" get their name not from fighting in a "pit" as the fighting ring looks nothing like a pit per se but i know "coal mine" is a name featured in a lot of early english staffy pedigrees. but as far as pulling carts go it may have been an early sport they were used for but as an actually day to day purpose for the dogs i would think it would be a bit too taxing on them pulling a 2000lb coal cart up a steep incline.

er... the coal miners were fighting their dogs in the pit after work.... hence the name.

I'm with you on that one Skylar!

Skylar wrote:er... the coal miners were fighting their dogs in the pit after work.... hence the name.

The coal mines were called "pits" what does fighting have to do with anything? Were the "Pit Ponies" called that because they used to fight them after work or because they were used in the coal mines lol?
Early staffys were used as companion dogs in the pits as well as rodent control in the pits as well as some cart pulling in the pits hence the name.

Read the history

Regarding the word "pit" in "pit bull" coming from these dogs pulling carts in the mines of England.

I have heard this too, but I dont buy it. Even if it is true that they were used for this purpose, then I doubt it happened with any great regularity, or enough to lead to them being called "pit bull" because of it.

From what I can see the historical use of the word "pit" in "pit bull" seems to be much more confined to north America than England. Look at these dogs when they were being imported from England to other parts of the world during the 19th century, places like New Zealand and Australia: There they were called numerous names, yet I have never come across one case of their dogs called "pit bulls". There they were always called bulldog, coloured bull terrier, or bull and terrier during the 19th century.

Regarding pit bulls and Whippets.

As far as I know Greyhounds were crossed with terriers to create Whippets. Some say bulldogs (of the pit bull type) were crossed into terriers to give terriers gameness. And some say bulldogs (of pit bull type) were added to some Greyhounds to give Greyhounds more drive (These people use the brindle colouring of some Greyhounds as evidence of this). And obviously terriers were added to bulldogs to create bull and terriers.

Anyway, as Carla mentioned, these dogs were largely kept in the black country of England, by working class folk during the same era. So it would not be unreasonable to assume from time to time crosses were made between pit bulls and Whippets (intentionally or unintentionally).

Not sure but i think i might have read somewhere that they were called "pit dog"....

Skylar wrote:Not sure but i think i might have read somewhere that they were called "pit dog"....

Skylar, if you remember where you might have seen it written then that would be cool to see.

I know the dogs have been referred to as pit bulls and pit dogs and pit terriers in more recent years, but I am still yet to see any evidence they were called these names in Ireland and Britain during the 19th century.

I imagine it is possible and likely that they were called "pit" dogs - since they were called a lot of different names in the 19th century - but if I could actually find it written from outside the USA then that would be cool.

For future reference - Just because they were used for fighting in the pit DOES not means i think the breed are fighting dogs!

All the books i have are in the storage in UK but check this link out just to get the idea of why or how they got those names whether it was in UK or USA or wherever. Its all connected IMO -

http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/apbtfaqover.html

http://dogs.about.com/od/dogbreedprofil ... errier.htm

It's true that many coal miners had these dogs and used them in fights sometimes, but those dogs were not bred for actual fighting. Apparently part of the name comes from the fact that the men had their dogs fight in a large dirt hole or "pit" in the ground.

WOw!! that is just scary and looks painful. Would love to see the show about it though since I have never heard of this double muscle mutation before. Am really glad we dont have any propensity for it in ASTs.

I think other site proprietors should take www.amstafftalk.com as an model, very clean and excellent user friendly style and design, let alone the content. You are an expert in this topic! regards

Skylar wrote:For future reference - Just because they were used for fighting in the pit DOES not means i think the breed are fighting dogs!

All the books i have are in the storage in UK but check this link out just to get the idea of why or how they got those names whether it was in UK or USA or wherever. Its all connected IMO -

http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/apbtfaqover.html

http://dogs.about.com/od/dogbreedprofil ... errier.htm

Thanks Skylar, but sorry man, that is not actually what I meant. These are both modern links written by modern people - I was hoping for links to old newspapers or old books which show that they used the terms "pit bull" in the UK back then. Anyone can sit there and write something that says these dogs were called this or these dogs were called that, but what I am looking for is the actual proof of it all. And as I mentioned so far I have only heard of these dogs being called pit bull in the USA which does not make a lot of sense if they were supposed to have gotten this name "pit" from working in the mines of England.

Personally, I am always open for different ideas about the exact origins of our breeds, but I am going to completely rule out the idea they got their name from their association with miners. Until I see some form of evidence for this, then I think we can all safely assume the word pit in their name comes from the pit that they were put into to fight other dogs and rats. And so far the most evidence of them being called pit bulls comes from the USA which completely dispels the notion that their name comes from black country miners!

How about this one??

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Miners-Strike-C ... B0088WOZSA

This one is actually in French but I really liked the different drawing, paintings & photos of the old English terriers (white or black/tan), the old bull dogs and of the old passtimes (bull-baiting, bear-bating, rat killing matches in a "box" or "pit"). There is a great pic of an AKC 1937 dog show, look how small the dogs are compared to now! Interesting page